To those who could've got their P's but havent

[James]

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.js...storyid=3244811 (http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1258&storyid=3244811)


As of the 11th July 2005 P1 and P2 license holders will be banned from driving turbocharged, supercharged, v8 and 'engine modified' vehicles. An engine swap apparently also counts as an engine modification and thus is also disallowed.

It's not retrospective legislation so if you get your P's BEFORE the 1st of july, you wont be affected by this.

[fauxpas]

touche... ole... and about phuking time...

[moochie]

Yep, I'll have to agree with that.

Oh well, blacks in september, woo hoo!

[Dezza Bot]

/me runs off and gets P's

Side note here... I could still drive say... my mates Tricked out Skyline as long as I'm still on my L's lol

Oh well at least I can still drive the Mini Cooper S :D

[Brainless]

Now i just have 2 yrs to build the engine for my engine swap =)

[James]

How many people actually read the article or my first post?



This law is not retrospective. Meaning if you've already got your P's , this law doesnt concern you.

HOWEVER

if your licence is suspended and then when you get it back after july 11th, then you're subject to the new laws.

Lose your licence due to speeding in your turbo car? No problemo! you wont be able to drive it when you get your licence back though.

[Brainless]

Yes i know it is not retrospective, but i would prefer not to get pulled over all the time for having a turbo car, then the cop going ohhh its ok for you to drive it, or start defecting instead, i would prefer not to draw attention, plus gives me time to get all the suspension up to date before hand while the engine is being built

[James]

if that saab is turbo or not turbo, its not really going to draw any more attention one way or the other, unless they hear the turbo in which case there's just going to be a bit of "wtf was that noise?" and by then you're gone anyway.

Just dont plaster turbo badges all over it!


You're right though... its gonna suck for me, i'll get pulled over all the time just to check when I got my licence... although since i've got my green P's, i've obviously got my P's licence before july 11th so green P platers shouldnt get pulled over as often as red p-platers in nice cars will

[Brainless]

the saab will be a sleeper so it is gonna be alright, but for whats getting done it will take me close to a yr to complete

[KrE8oR69]

YAY no more red plateing twats that think that are 1337 when they shift with an auto tranny

[James]

Originally posted by KrE8oR69@Jun 7 2005, 02:50 PM
YAY no more red plateing twats that think that are 1337 when they shift with an auto* tranny
83768



EH?????


What the HELL are you talking about?


This just stops new P-platers and people who lose their P's for a suspended sentence and get them back from driving V8's, turbocharged and supercharged vehicles. Excluding turbo and supercharged diesel.


Also, "engine modified" vehicles will be no-go as well.


I fail to see how that stops Johnny Leet Fo-Shizzle driving his mums camry from manually shifting with an auto tranny

[BR3TT]

Who cares?

All you need is a car to do the maximum legal speed limit which is 110km/h.

A V8 or Superchraged/Turbocharged car is not needed to do this.

Aslong as you have a car that does the speed limit, is reliable, and goes from point A to B, your set.

A full sick hektik imported supercharged turbo v8 isn't needed to do 110km/h on the freeway.

[MR2]

Originally posted by griffinTT@Jun 7 2005, 12:32 PM
How many people actually read the article or my first post?
This law is not retrospective. Meaning if you've already got your P's , this law doesnt concern you.

HOWEVER

if your licence is suspended and then when you get it back after july 11th, then you're subject to the new laws.

Lose your licence due to speeding in your turbo car? No problemo! you wont be able to drive it when you get your licence back though.
83745



Really? classic. but if you have your licence suspended you won't be on your P's at the end of it will you

[MR2]

Originally posted by BR3TT@Jun 7 2005, 05:39 PM
Who cares?

All you need is a car to do the maximum legal speed limit which is 110km/h.

A V8 or Superchraged/Turbocharged car is not needed to do this.

Aslong as you have a car that does the speed limit, is reliable, and goes from point A to B, your set.

A full sick hektik imported supercharged turbo v8 isn't needed to do 110km/h on the freeway.
83776



Make that a Full sic hektik imported supercharged TWIN turbo V8 lexie baby ;)

[James]

thats more like it mr2 ! :D



best v8 there is.


but if you mean if your licence is suspended when you're on your full licence, then no, you're not subject to these laws anyway!

[MR2]

there was this huge talk show on earlier yesterday about it heh :)

[LMo]

what confuses me is that they are restricting us from high powered vehicles because of the speeds...yet an excel can still get to 220k/h even a Sirion can get to close to those speeds....do they think its going to stop anything?

[James]

yeah, but if you're driving an excel on a wet road, and then a V8 SS commodore... lets just say theyre both auto


and you put the boot down on the accelerator


vastly different things are going to happen


Also, a hyundai excel will not get up to 220km/h.

Maybe down mooney mooney bridge with a tail wind, but yeah

[ViLLaN]

We get into this everytime this convo comes up.. Its not top speed.. High-po cars and stock standard family vehicles are two very different beasts..

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by LMo@Jun 8 2005, 02:39 PM
what confuses me is that they are restricting us from high powered vehicles because of the speeds...yet an excel can still get to 220k/h even a Sirion can get to close to those speeds....do they think its going to stop anything?
83847


Problem is, a hipo car offers 2 things to a young driver;

1) More likely to become a handful than an excel

2) When it does become a handful you're doing 20-50 kph quicker... and accidents just that little bit quicker means bigger OUCH!!!

Solution for P Platers? Learn to drive... learn to make a car stop and handle better... Then when you get your blacks, you are less likely to get into big trouble because you've got years of driving exp up your sleeve...

Just my view... I got my rider and driver license b4 most of you were born, so this legislation only effects me at wallet level... hopefully less accidents/deaths = cheaper insurance...

:D

[muttster]

No matter what restrictions are brought in a dikchead behind the wheel will kill themselves, its just that a high performance car will make it alot easier. If you want a turbo without being noticed just dont throw on a blow off valve, whats wrong with a wastegate:) replace that pachhhhhhhhh with a watttaaatttaaatttaaaa. (use ur imagination:P)
Also there are many cars out there that are absolute weapons stock standard without turbo or supercharger, take for example the suzuki swift GTI. A bloke at my work owns one and it absolutly flies.
If people bought sports tyres to put on these high performance beasts then there would be far less accidents, people forget most road tyres are only designed for speeds upto 120km/h.


Also people new to driving turbo cars need to know what turbo lag is and howto compensate. This little bit of education would save many lives. Someone somewhere in another topic said something about this.

[blot0]

i think its more so a matter for better driver education then just sticking on restrictions...

its more of a cheap way out for the government then it is a solution to the problem.

[sho3]

Originally posted by muttster@Jun 8 2005, 09:48 PM
No matter what restrictions are brought in a dikchead behind the wheel will kill themselves, its just that a high performance car will make it alot easier. If you want a turbo without being noticed just dont throw on a blow off valve, whats wrong with a wastegate:) replace that pachhhhhhhhh with a watttaaatttaaatttaaaa. (use ur imagination:P)
83882


All turbo cars have wastegates they are a different thing to a blowoff valve. The BOV vents the excess gas inside the intake pipeafter the turbo and the wastegate vents the gas after

[James]

Originally posted by muttster@Jun 8 2005, 09:48 PM
Also people new to driving turbo cars need to know what turbo lag is and howto compensate. This little bit of education would save many lives. Someone somewhere in another topic said something about this.
83882




we wont go into what happened to a friend of mine the first time he drove a turbo car....


lets just say he didnt anticipate how powerful the car would come onto boost

[DrSp3d]

im with jack and faux on this one

instead of just putting a "bandaid" solution on it, start teaching kids the importance of car control from the get go

i see old drivers who have never had any sort of technical training and they are just as bad as the p platers getting around, but most of the time they have been in a situation where they have had to develop these skills to avoid doing it again....

and funny thing is that most of the time the skills are common sense and self control....

[Brainless]

wanna get around it, build a saab sleeper :D

[PHOENIX_12]

Originally posted by DrSp3d@Jun 9 2005, 01:45 AM
im with jack and faux on this one

instead of just putting a "bandaid" solution on it, start teaching kids the importance of car control from the get go

i see old drivers who have never had any sort of technical training and they are just as bad as the p platers getting around, but most of the time they have been in a situation where they have had to develop these skills to avoid doing it again....

and funny thing is that most of the time the skills are common sense and self control....
83893


agreed, i see lots of full licenced drivers that are just as bad as some of the p plate drivers out there, teaching ppl car control from the start will go along way towards solving p plate drivers and normal drivers problems

[James]

Originally posted by PHOENIX_12@Jun 9 2005, 09:12 AM
agreed, i see lots of full licenced drivers that are just as bad as some of the p plate drivers out there, teaching ppl car control from the start will go along way towards solving p plate drivers and normal drivers problems
83901




no, changing driver mentality will solve a lot of problems.


I agree drivers need to be more skilled, but lack of skills isnt whats causing hoonish behavior, and people drag racing, etc etc, now is it

[moochie]

Yes, I'm going to agree with Faux, Jack, Bren and everyone else who says young drivers need more experience on the road before we let them loose.

I actually think we should listen to people like Faux and Villan, who have had their licences alot longer then most of us here have. Who have owned all different sorts of cars. P-platers may think that the older driving population are out to get us, but infact alot of them only want not to see us dead.

[James]

Originally posted by moochie@Jun 9 2005, 09:31 AM
Yes, I'm going to agree with Faux, Jack, Bren and everyone else who says young drivers need more experience on the road before we let them loose.

I actually think we should listen to people like Faux and Villan, who have had their licences alot longer then most of us here have. Who have owned all different sorts of cars. P-platers may think that the older driving population are out to get us, but infact alot of them only want not to see us dead.
83903




and what about the old person, who has driven for 40 years without a single blemish on their driving record, what the government would call a "model" driving citizen... yet they may have never driven further than the local supermarket or their work in the same suburb...

You cannot simply just gauge skill by saying "all young people arent good drivers" and you cant just say "all young people think the older driving population are out to get us"

Because it's just not simply the case. What the hell makes you think P platers are thinking that in the first place?

All I think people are seeing with this current change in the laws, is that the government is not addressing the real problems that are leading to P-plate fatalities.

And the only reason P plater fatalities have increased is because the Provisional driver time has increased from one year to three.
This is just more ineffective and discriminatry legislation that effects us all who have a passion towards automobiles and enhancing them, really.


Have a power to weight ratio limit, sure. But I think this is a little toooo far.


I read someone say this on the issue

Parents don't seem to take responsibility for teaching their kids to drive anymore... they just send them off to a driving school.

Driving schools don't teach kids how to drive they teach kids how to pass a test.
My old man started teaching me to drive before I could even reach the pedals!

Parents then let their kids buy expensive performance cars while they are on their p's (or buy them for them) and then wonder why they crashed and died.
Then they have the hide to write to the daily telegraph to complain!!!
INSANITY!
Blame the parents I say.

And I agree entirely with that.


But ah welll... just the way it is eh? the latest generation always gets farked over more than the last :(



I wonder how long before the government decides the problem with these accidents are people dying, and then legislate against people dying

At least they'd wipe out mortality in our lifetime, eh? :lol:

[moochie]

Did I say that ???? NO!

I said we should listen to older drivers like Faux and Villan who have had numerous ranges of experience.

I'm not talking about th average old fart who has only driven to the supermarket and back and full well you know it.

And what the hell makes me think p-plates think old people are out to get us.

Um, hello?! I'm a p plater!!!! So are most of my friends! I listen thank you very much.

And if you are so opinionated on the matter why don't you stop wasting your obviously much more acurate views then the rest of us have on plebs who just don't know what they are talking about.

And I never once stated "all young drivers are bad drives", by saying so would mean I think I'm a bad driver. And that I think alot of other young drivers are bad drivers when this is not the case.

[PHOENIX_12]

hrm i'd say it's partly parent's fauly, partly the testing process's fault and part the drivers fault, and to solve the problem lots has to change, and we got to start somewhere, and too harsh is better than not harsh enough, caus too harsh and alive can be fixed more easy than not harsh enough and dead. :-/

although i think all the stuff the government's doing isn't going to help too much, they just don't want to put tax payers money towards somthing usefull

[moochie]

Perhaps we should just wait for an opinion from the wise and mighty James.

God knows, it seems he has all the answers.

[James]

Originally posted by PHOENIX_12@Jun 9 2005, 10:07 AM
and we got to start somewhere,

Then why not start where it will do the most good?

although i think all the stuff the government's doing isn't going to help too much,
83912




then you say this anyway?! you just contradicted your post.


They should work on changing the attitude of drivers... of course the driver education system requires major reform but limiting TYPES of vehicles should not be good..

Someone who is restricted to something like a charade is never going to learn the skills required to drive something like a skyline GTS-T that they may buy when they get their full licence.

I think a power to weight ratio law like victoria has, and like what currently exists for bikes, and a learner approved motor vehicle scheme (like the LAMS scheme for motorcycles) needs to be put in place.

I.E., a list of cars that are under the power to weight limit, and even then only certain cars.

But who cares, the public that gobbles up the today tonight and daily telegraph propaganda is being told that this will solve the problem...

SO let's just sit back and watch the statistics not change, eh?

[James]

Originally posted by moochie@Jun 9 2005, 10:10 AM
Perhaps we should just wait for an opinion from the wise and mighty James.

God knows, it seems he has all the answers.
83913



yep thats it, let's be silly now :rolleyes:


Posts like this do nothing but prove your immaturity on the given issue.


Just because you misinterpreted my original post, as I'm now clearing up with you on msn, doesnt mean the rest of the forum should have to read this off topic stuff

[moochie]

Then don't bring further attention to it. Simple.

[Brainless]

People!!!!! it is 3 years of your driving life, how about you just get over it! bitching and moaning is not going to change anything learn to deal with it. personally i think ford and holden drivers should be banned from the road but thats cause it seems every day i get 1 of the 2 try and fly up the inside of me on the freeway or cut me off or decide they will change from the far left hand lane to the right hand lane going through a 1 car gap in the middle lane, is this mindless fighting doing anything about it? NO! if you have a problem wire a letter and send it to your local poli, get all your mates to do it as well maybe he might wake up and try and fight it in a place that matters,

[James]

You'll notice that no-one has opposed the ruling, just that more should be done, or it should be tackled in a different manner.

Almost everyone has agreed that P platers should be power restricted -

Just it should've been tackled a different way

Look at saab turbos... not enough power to pull the skin off a custard in their stock form yet legally you wont be allowed to drive one.

I think this may end up being one of those laws like having an Auto-restricted licence on your red P's, yet driving a manual... Officer's discretion will decide whether or not you will get pinged for this.


Time will tell, eh? :D :D :D :D


by the way, i love you all.

especially sarah.

[ViLLaN]

None of this is personal, people who are taking it personally need to grow up.

The problem is the same as its always been..

We all know how we felt when we first got behind the wheel of a car by ourselves.. Its freedom.. Its the first time in a young life, that you feel independent, and free. Unfortunantly.. You arent free.. What you've actually just done is strapped yourself into 1.5 tonne weapon. People embrace the independence that driving provides, but forget that independence comes with responsibility. As James has said previously, its more mentality than anything else..

* Pilots learn in cessnas.. Then work there way up.
* Ship captains, learn in smaller boats / ships.. Work there way up.
* Truck drivers, learn in smaller trucks, THEN move to the road trains..

People learning to drive cars, should not be allowed straight into performance vehicles, they should earn the right to drive them through experience.

EDIT: And they need to clear up the definition of WHAT a performance vehicle is.. Having a turbo doesnt make it a sports car... *looks at Toyota Surfs*

[moochie]

Well said.

[James]

Originally posted by ViLLaN@Jun 9 2005, 11:22 AM
EDIT: And they need to clear up the definition of WHAT a performance vehicle is.. Having a turbo doesnt make it a sports car... *looks at Toyota Surfs*
83925



Yeah, agreed there. I wasn't having a dig at SAABS, basically just saying the same thing you were there. To ban you from cars which arent exactly hi-po vehicles just because they use a different method of induction isn't right. More effort needs to be invested into this law.

But it may be amended down the track to cater for such vehicles, who knows.



If i recall correctly turbo diesels arent included in this legislation.

So little billy with his P's can still drive his mums Four-Wheel Drive (i refuse to call it an SUV)

[MR2]

Originally posted by griffinTT@Jun 8 2005, 03:41 PM
yeah, but if you're driving an excel on a wet road, and then a V8 SS commodore... lets just say theyre both auto
and you put the boot down on the accelerator
vastly different things are going to happen
Also, a hyundai excel will not get up to 220km/h.

Maybe down mooney mooney bridge with a tail wind, but yeah
83848



nope, she maxed out at 200 flat...ask kittie should you not believe

[MR2]

there is no real point in a topic like this bar having fun :P like we have any sway in it.

the people who are out to get "us" (dict: us = those under 30) is those 45+ (30% assholes) and those 60+ (99% assholes) and I'm refering to those old people who drive less than an hour per day...who sit there reading one sided media stories and don't have the brain to think there is a second side to it all

[ViLLaN]

Originally posted by MR2@Jun 9 2005, 03:45 AM
there is no real point in a topic like this bar having fun :P like we have any sway in it.

the people who are out to get "us" (dict: us = those under 30) is those 45+ (30% assholes) and those 60+ (99% assholes) and I'm refering to those old people who drive less than an hour per day...who sit there reading one sided media stories and don't have the brain to think there is a second side to it all
83933


Well said :P Dont get me started on 110kph freeway speeds.. Dave and I spent like 3 - 4 hours a day in the car, and 110 is way too slow (need to get him out of the car as quickly as possible) :P

[James]

Originally posted by ViLLaN@Jun 9 2005, 01:54 PM
110 is way too slow
83934




especially on our freeways and motorways which are modern built roads, and are rated up to something like 300km/h

[AlCaTrAzz]

yeah, but how many cars are rated at that speed?

also, there are some sections of road (i'm thinking hume highway here) that are rated at 110, and would be suicide to go any faster than that...

i still think probably the best way to avoid the 'hoon' problems on the roads would be if they were given an area where they could do all that kinda thing off the public roads and without annoying other people...

[Smart_Ass_Rolphy]

Originally posted by AlCaTrAzz@Jun 9 2005, 02:26 PM
i still think probably the best way to avoid the 'hoon' problems on the roads would be if they were given an area where they could do all that kinda thing off the public roads and without annoying other people...
83937



they have things like that at certain speedways

[James]

Originally posted by AlCaTrAzz@Jun 9 2005, 02:26 PM
yeah, but how many cars are rated at that speed?

also, there are some sections of road (i'm thinking hume highway here) that are rated at 110, and would be suicide to go any faster than that...

i still think probably the best way to avoid the 'hoon' problems on the roads would be if they were given an area where they could do all that kinda thing off the public roads and without annoying other people...
83937



ummm

look at cars today. many of these roads were first designed and built a while ago, and even the modern motorways just finished as well are all rated to higher speeds. Notice I said motorways and freeways, and did not mention highways. I'm not saying they should up the speed limit on the old pac or hume etc :rolleyes:


Anyway, I digress. Look at the cars today. Modern subaru WRX's and commodores and camrys could quite easily (and SAFELY) cruise down roads like the M4 along some sections at speeds of higher than 110km/h.


Best way to avoid the hoon problem is to give an area where they could do that kind of thing? What kind of thing?

There's driftland at oran park.
There's the WSID every wednesday night and weekends every now and then for drag racing.

Tracks have open days all the time. There's a circuit club that keeps track (pun not intended) of open days for different circuits and organises meets etc.


Or do you just want a government built big patch of tarmac where all the hoons can just congregate, have a BBQ and do doughnuts? :lol:


That would be pretty cool. hehe

[Brainless]

I like to eat doughnuts... mmmm krispy kremes

[ViLLaN]

Originally posted by griffinTT@Jun 9 2005, 04:46 AM
Or do you just want a government built big patch of tarmac where all the hoons can just congregate, have a BBQ and do doughnuts?* :lol:
That would be pretty cool. hehe
83941


I second this idea :) haha

The problem with most laws is that they have to cater to the lowest denominator.. Sure, most of our cars can run a hell of alot quicker than they ever get the chance to, but there are also .e boxes that simply aren't up to the challenge. While the RTA and gov allow .boxes on our roads, there will always be heavy restrictions..

55kmh recommended speed? Maybe in a horse drawn cart :P

[James]

Originally posted by ViLLaN@Jun 9 2005, 03:53 PM
The problem with most laws is that they have to cater to the lowest denominator.. Sure, most of our cars can run a hell of alot quicker than they ever get the chance to, but there are also .e boxes that simply aren't up to the challenge. While the RTA and gov allow .boxes on our roads, there will always be heavy restrictions..
83946




Yeah, I see what you mean. The problem is that even if 85% of the vehicles on the road can safely sustain a speed of (example) 150km/h which, on the F3 heading back from newcastle, feels totally safe on some sections of the road because its such a high quality road, but yeah back to what I was saying, 85% of cars can handle that, that means there's 15% of cars that can't reliably handle travelling at that speed.

And to have cars legally moving (example ) 40 to 50 kilometers per hour faster than other cars is going to cause problems.

[fauxpas]

Turbos are exempt for Deisel engines and V8s are OK for work vehicles in rural settings...

[James]

Originally posted by griffinTT@Jun 9 2005, 11:40 AM
If i recall correctly turbo diesels arent included in this legislation.

So little billy with his P's can still drive his mums Four-Wheel Drive (i refuse to call it an SUV)
83927

[ViLLaN]

Originally posted by fauxpas@Jun 9 2005, 06:08 AM
Turbos are exempt for Deisel engines and V8s are OK for work vehicles in rural settings...
83950


Does anyone know if the Central Coast counts as 'rural'? We certainly have enough rednecks :P

[BR3TT]

I do 120km/h on my L's.

[jimmythekidd]

high powered cars produce more pollution & use more fuel, these resources arent gonna be around forever,
the government needs to forget these changes but instead enforce all young drivers to drive turbo & V8's on the road & use up the oil faster so we run out sooner thus - in the end - reducing the road toll coz we'll all be riding bikes, sure we'll loose more lives now, but in the future we'll be sweet as.
I should be in parlament

[RavenKittie]

Originally posted by MR2@Jun 9 2005, 01:32 PM
nope, she maxed out at 200 flat...ask kittie should you not believe
83932



/me nods

The man speaks the truth!

[sho3]

Originally posted by BR3TT@Jun 9 2005, 05:33 PM
I do 120km/h on my L's.
83955



Horray for you, You are one of the reasons the law is coming in. Well done you tard you win Teh PRIZE :angry:

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by BR3TT@Jun 9 2005, 05:33 PM
I do 120km/h on my L's.
83955


There's another $10 a year on my premuim... pffft

[DrSp3d]

close...

[fauxpas]

The news tonight showed damning evidence of why so many peeps die on the F3...

They reckon the main reason is ppl drive too close to each other ignoring the 3 second rule... this causes the initial accident... it is the resultant accident that kills people...

Its all about basics and this new legislation is all about keeping younglings alive long enough to work this out...

Its been in for bikes for ages... it was just a matter of time...

[blot0]

big highways between major cities sydney to newie for example. should be widned to like 4 lanes and turned into something like the autobarn.

i dont live in germany .. but its been open for since forever .. and i doubt the accident rate is very high (probly because the lowest common denominator there is allot higher then ours?)

australia is a very spread out country.. roads are quality for the most part.


but .. then if the speed limit is a bit or allot higher then it is.. then cops cant book people as easily.. wich means less revinue.. so i doubt they would ever think of doing anything like that.

[fauxpas]

But the cars that do the constant hi speeds are executive expresses, like BWMs and Mercs... and 17yo kids don't normally own em and rich mums and dads would be insane letting them out on them...

Remember too the autobahns aren't bent as much as the m3 and most of europe's land lends itself to flat, fairly straight roads...

Most normal cars have to get outta da way...

[SonicDeathMonkey]

I think this may end up being one of those laws like having an Auto-restricted licence on your red P's, yet driving a manual... Officer's discretion will decide whether or not you will get pinged for this.


See the thing I find amusing about this is that I have driven for 3 months on my Red P's Auto restricted License in a Manual car. ONE day before I get my green P's I get busted up by an RBT for Auto Restricted License only.

He was just doing his job so no argument from me, but I just find it irritating that one day I cant drive a manual, next day NO examination I can legally drive a stick.

Bah.

[BR3TT]

Originally posted by sho3@Jun 9 2005, 08:31 PM
Horray for you, You are one of the reasons the law is coming in. Well done you tard you win Teh PRIZE :angry:
83964


HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

I knew that post would stir someone.. =]